|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
I need guidance - 11/2/2009 10:07:06 AM
|
|
|
AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 282
Joined: 4/28/2008
Status: offline
|
Ok here is where I am at. My wife and I are struggling. I am doing my best to be Godly and a Godly leader of our home. However, my wife is pulling away from me. I confronted her and she said marriage is just hard for her and that I make her feel awkward. There is a wall up. There is not intimacy there. I am trying but she says I am being overbearing. What should I do. I am not sure how to handle this. I love my wife and it is killing me not having intimacy with her. She told me I talk to much about God and it has made her bitter and that is why she is not reading her bible. It is like anytime I confront her or try to lead our home I am being overbearing she says. What do I do? Do I just give her space or what. I give and give and its like I do not get anything back. I know I am not the best husband in the world, and I am praying about it and striving to be a Godly husband, I know I can't make someone love me, please pray that God will make her fall back inlove with me and that I will be the husband I need to be. Please help, I am miserable.
_____________________________
"Sin for the Christian is a burden which afflicts him rather than a pleasure which delights him." - John MacArthur
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/2/2009 12:06:20 PM
|
|
|
mvic
Posts: 789
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline
|
I suspect there is more to this than just you talking too much about God. You both need professional guidance and marriage counselling.
Any advice given you here will be advice without knowing the facts - which you should not talk about here.
Seek professional guidance. I am praying for you both; and I'm sure many reading this will pray for you too.
God bless.
_____________________________
My Book
Time For Reflections
Free E Book http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/2/2009 3:13:32 PM
|
|
|
doinkdom
Posts: 5357
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
|
Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body.
I bolded some key phrases that might help you out...
Lead her like Jesus...who was only confronting in an "in your face, no discussion" way with Pharisees. This is your wife...leadership is not dictatorship. Perhaps asking for her patience while you figure out how to walk out spiritual leadership would be possible and then get counsel from other godly men/couples on what that might look like.
_____________________________
Our furball Niko, lounging around...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/2/2009 3:25:06 PM
|
|
|
frankman
Posts: 259
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
I am trying but she says I am being overbearing. What should I do. I am not sure how to handle this. .
I think the opposite of overbearing is forbearance. Eph.4:2 comes to mind. "Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love."
Seeking professional guidance is definately a very good idea. You may have to learn the 1 Cor.13 concept of learning to give a lot of love while expecting nothing in return. We`ll be praying for you. Hope your also praying for your wife. Why not try praying with her? Then why not rekindly your intimacy by reading the Bible together? If your marriage is worth saving, marriage counselling may be the route to go.
< Message edited by frankman -- 11/2/2009 3:34:17 PM >
_____________________________
"Is not My word like fire,` declares the LORD, `and like a hammer that breaks a rock in peaces?" Jeremiah 23:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/2/2009 3:33:03 PM
|
|
|
AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 282
Joined: 4/28/2008
Status: offline
|
I pray with her every morning before I leave to work. I try to read the bible with her, but she acts like I am being overbearing or something. It is like everything I do it doesn't help. I have been leaving her letters, texting her throughout the day, doing a lot of extra work around the house, rubbing her feet, etc etc and she says I am being to overbearing. It is like the more I try to show my love for her the farther she backs away. She even said this. If I didn't call her or text her we would never talk on the phone. She is so distant and everytime I try to get alone with her she always has some excuse not to. Like "I am tired" "I dont feel well" etc etc. She doesn't like me to put my arm around her or hold her hand or kiss her. If I didn't kiss her we wouldn't ever kiss. My question is should I keep doing these things or just back away and wait?
_____________________________
"Sin for the Christian is a burden which afflicts him rather than a pleasure which delights him." - John MacArthur
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/2/2009 3:45:51 PM
|
|
|
frankman
Posts: 259
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
I think giving her some space may be the right answer. However a counsellor that knows the whole picture better could give you a better answer.
_____________________________
"Is not My word like fire,` declares the LORD, `and like a hammer that breaks a rock in peaces?" Jeremiah 23:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/2/2009 3:46:32 PM
|
|
|
laura...
Posts: 3397
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
Status: offline
|
Leaders in the Kingdom of God serve.
John 13:14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16 I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.
Mark 9:35 Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, "If anyone wants to be first, he must be the very last, and the servant of all."
Are you treating your wife with respect and as a partner rather than a subordinate?
1 Peter 3:7Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
It's pretty tough to be intimate with a boss.
_____________________________
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith... ...so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. Hebrew 12:3-4
Follow me on Twitter: MrsLalaD
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/2/2009 3:59:04 PM
|
|
|
AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 282
Joined: 4/28/2008
Status: offline
|
The thing is I am not bossing her at all. Thats not what I am saying. It is the otherway around. I am constantly doing for her with very little in return. And when I confront her she says I am being overbearing. I want us to become one flesh and righr now we are seperated and everything I do to try to bring us together just gets on her nerves. I am not condeming her or anything. It is very frustrating.
_____________________________
"Sin for the Christian is a burden which afflicts him rather than a pleasure which delights him." - John MacArthur
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/2/2009 4:11:21 PM
|
|
|
laura...
Posts: 3397
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
The thing is I am not bossing her at all. Thats not what I am saying. It is the otherway around. I am constantly doing for her with very little in return. And when I confront her she says I am being overbearing. I want us to become one flesh and righr now we are seperated and everything I do to try to bring us together just gets on her nerves. I am not condeming her or anything. It is very frustrating.
Based on this I think it best for you to back off for awhile. Let her know that you still want reconciliation and when she is ready you want to get marriage counseling.
In the meantime you may want to read the book, "Boundaries in Marriage". From what you posted I'm not sure if you are crossing her boundaries or if you have no boundaries for yourself.
_____________________________
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith... ...so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. Hebrew 12:3-4
Follow me on Twitter: MrsLalaD
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/2/2009 4:17:21 PM
|
|
|
doinkdom
Posts: 5357
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
|
Do you have another couple that you're friends with where the wife could maybe talk with your wife. Not on your behalf, but just to see what is going on with her regarding her health and even her spiritual walk.
Is she friends with anyone at where you worship? Being honest with her about being at a loss on what to do as well as her getting around other godly women is also a suggestion.
You're not her holy spirit and are obviously just trying to figure all this out.
That whole distancing you mentioned is not good, it can be sinful and lead down a very unpleasant road for her.
_____________________________
Our furball Niko, lounging around...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/2/2009 4:21:26 PM
|
|
|
TMeeks
Posts: 947
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
|
Sometimes, the way people react to us has very little to do with us at all. So, let's start there and work forward.
There is an old saying, "Rejected people Reject"
What that means is that most likely in your wife's past she faced rejection. Perhaps she had a difficult father or mother. Perhaps it was at school. But, I'm going to guess that she has a past history of feeling rejected that makes it very difficult for her to trust being close to someone. And, the more you try to be close, the more she pulls away.
If you or she grew up in an alcoholic home, or even the home of a child of an alcoholic, then things get REALLY complex. That is because control issues can rear their ugly head. Children living in chaos can come to feel that they need to be in control at all times or they get very nervous.
A lot of times the very things that we THINK are THE Christian thing to do, can actually become counter-productive. And, that includes praying with her each day. She might take that as manipulation rather than love and acceptance.
Here is what I would like you to try. Pray this prayer and then completely back off and let God do a miraculous work in BOTH of your lives.
Lord, I come to you today for one reason and one reason only. I am asking you to move me and my wife into the very center of Your Will for our lives... no matter where that leads. Bring me close and closer to you. Bring her closer and closer to being all that you want her to be. I put myself and my wife in your hands and I will simply rest in you to fulfill that work as you have promised. So, from this moment on and every moment in the future may we be drawn ever closer to your heart and mind.
Rest and watch. :)
_____________________________
Discovery with Microscopes Blog
Create & Cut Crafting
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/2/2009 4:22:10 PM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 9850
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
That whole distancing you mentioned is not good, it can be sinful and lead down a very unpleasant road for her.
It also might be a sign of something else, like a rift in her walk with the Lord that makes her resent a reminder of Him.
In any case, I agree that backing way off is the best thing at this point and praying for her.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/2/2009 4:58:16 PM
|
|
|
Liveloved
Posts: 2099
Status: offline
|
quote:
Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body.
You've gotten some wonderful counsel here, Abounding. I'm so thankful for all who have responded to your cry for help. And thanks for coming
here. We do love you and care and you and your wife are in our prayers.
I've copied doinkdom's scripture as this is particularly beautiful. God is so good and left us with some beautiful instructions for how to live with our spouses. It is not easy. When two become one, much dying has to be done. And this dying takes time. My husband and I have been married for 34 years and we continue to need to die daily in order to honor and lift up the other. I do not know how anyone does this apart from Jesus.
I think finding a godly couple to come alongside you and your wife would be most beneficial. But finding that couple might be difficult. So perhaps your pastor or a godly counselor could be found to help.
The fact that your wife is wanting distance is certainly a symptom of something. . . and it probably is less to do with you and more to do with what is going on inside her, in her inside world. It sounds like she needs to talk with someone who she trusts to get to the heart of what's going on within. That someone probably won't be you.
Encourage her to find a godly person to help. Stop the texting, the notes, the calls and all that you are doing. It sounds as if those things are only adding to the problem. Find a friend who will listen to you instead.
When you say separation, do you mean you are actually living apart? Or were you just referring to a gulf in your relationship?
I know it is hard to back off when we see something happening that we don't understand. We want to get in and control it. Surrender this relationship to the Lord's care, Abounding. He loves you and longs to guide you. Be still. Listen. Saturate yourself in His word. And believe. He will fight for you. He shall do valiantly! Believing for you, LL
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/2/2009 5:26:00 PM
|
|
|
cwb
Posts: 140
Joined: 1/15/2007
From: Eastern NC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
I pray with her every morning before I leave to work. I try to read the bible with her, but she acts like I am being overbearing or something. It is like everything I do it doesn't help. I have been leaving her letters, texting her throughout the day, doing a lot of extra work around the house, rubbing her feet, etc etc and she says I am being to overbearing. It is like the more I try to show my love for her the farther she backs away. She even said this. If I didn't call her or text her we would never talk on the phone. She is so distant and everytime I try to get alone with her she always has some excuse not to. Like "I am tired" "I dont feel well" etc etc. She doesn't like me to put my arm around her or hold her hand or kiss her. If I didn't kiss her we wouldn't ever kiss. My question is should I keep doing these things or just back away and wait?
Praying every morning together? Who initiates this?
Letters and texting are NOT good, if there's a problem. You are 1 flesh. Face to face communication should be the ONLY communication if there's any rifts.
Any action, words, anything, on your part, should be proceeded by you asking yourself, "WWJD"? Then do, or say, as He would.
You can change yourself (if necessary), but you cannot change another. If you (and your wife, together, as ONE flesh) are not growing spiritually, you are dying spiritually.
Let the Word govern EVERY word of deed of yours, until there's resolution...
edit:
had to capitalize 'He'...
< Message edited by cwb -- 11/2/2009 5:52:54 PM >
_____________________________
We are to do the will of God from our heart. Eph Ch 6 v. 6
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/2/2009 5:41:01 PM
|
|
|
AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 282
Joined: 4/28/2008
Status: offline
|
We are living together. I initiate the prayer in the morning. I text her when I am at work and stuff.
_____________________________
"Sin for the Christian is a burden which afflicts him rather than a pleasure which delights him." - John MacArthur
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/2/2009 10:43:12 PM
|
|
|
kmangel
Posts: 269
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
I'm wondering if you are trying to do for your wife what you would like for yourself. There's a book called The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. I haven't read this book myself, but I think the gist of it is to discover what your wife's love language is. What your wife desires may be very different from what you are doing and that is one reason why you keep running up against resistance.
_____________________________
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
--Mark Twain
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/3/2009 12:43:31 AM
|
|
|
CMT8808
Posts: 911
Joined: 9/4/2009
Status: offline
|
Grace~
You have received a lot of great advice and I agree with others who says to stop texting, writing, notes and calling. She might feel suffocated by this.
The thing I suggest is that when you pray for her is ask the Lord to remind her why she fell in Love with you. Also there is a bibical based book of Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus by Timothy La Haye called: I Love you, But Why are we so Different. Just a thought
Said a prayer for you
CMT
_____________________________
formerly Delete 123
Never Underestimate the Power of God
Romans 8:28, Proverb 3:5
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/3/2009 12:59:08 AM
|
|
|
KnowJesus
Posts: 94
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: CMT8808
Grace~
You have received a lot of great advice and I agree with others who says to stop texting, writing, notes and calling. She might feel suffocated by this.
The thing I suggest is that when you pray for her is ask the Lord to remind her why she fell in Love with you. Also there is a bibical based book of Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus by Timothy La Haye called: I Love you, But Why are we so Different. Just a thought
Said a prayer for you
CMT
The book is a good one...and I agree, that she may feel suffocated by too much attention with the texting, writing notes and calling.
Have either of you heard about "Love and Respect?" You can look it up online. There are some free videos on the website that may help you get the drift of what might be going on in with you and your wife. It's worth the search.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/3/2009 9:39:17 AM
|
|
|
xgringo
Posts: 20
Joined: 4/29/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
y from me. I confronted her and she said marriage is just hard for her and that I make her feel awkward. There is a wall up. There is not intimacy there. I am trying but she says I am being overbearing. What should I do. I am not sure how to handle this. I love my wife and it is killing me not having intimacy with her. She told me I talk to much about God and it has made her bitter and that is why she is not reading her bible. It is like anytime I confront her or try to lead our home I am being overbearing she says. What do I do? Do I just give her space or what. I give and give and its like I do not get anything back. I know I am not the best husband in the world, and I am praying about it and striving to be a Godly husband, I know I can't make someone love me, please pray that God will make her fall back inlove with me and that I will be the husband I need to be. Please help, I am miserable.
Pray for your wife, and yourself, ask God to show you. Read God's word about marriage, learn to understand Christ's love, and then how does that come to bare on how your love is for your wife, pray some more. Repent of your own selfish-idolatry. We are often idolaters at heart longing to form or fashion our spouses in to the perfect image which we can worship, they will and are never perfect as we are not. Die to your self for her. She says she needs space, give it to her inspite of it killing you. Change your tone of voice, inspite of it killing you. Be Gentle. Be patient, Learn to love your wife in the way that she understands love, not the way you understand love. You might find a book on love languages for marriage, watch fire_proof. Pray some more, pray some more pray some more. Be patient, pray some more.
Getting the picture?
< Message edited by xgringo -- 11/3/2009 9:50:50 AM >
_____________________________
In His Mercy,
Jason
---------------------------------------
http://UrbanReformer.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/3/2009 11:56:32 AM
|
|
|
Liveloved
Posts: 2099
Status: offline
|
Abounding,
How are you doing today? I woke in prayer for you and I know others here are lifting you and your wife before the throne of grace where you may receive mercy and find grace to help you in this needful time.
We are all sinners saved only by the wonderful grace of our Lord Jesus. And getting two redeemed sinners to live in love is a work only He can do. We fail miserably. But the Lord is good and does wonders for those who look to Him.
I'm believing for you, Abounding. The Lord wants this relationship with your wife to succeed, to reflect His love for His bride. That is His will for the two of you. Claim it and ask Him to show you how to be Christ to your wife, how you are to love her.
He's the expert Lover. He knows. And He longs to instruct you in His ways. Be still. Rest in His love. Let Him do the work. He'll show you if and when you are to act. Place your full, absolute confidence in Him.
The Lord loves you and He is fighting for your marriage in the heavenlies. This battle is not between flesh and blood. This battle is between spiritual forces.
Get on your knees. Get in His word. Pray and believe. Saturate yourself in the truth; His word is truth. We gave a great high priest Who is interceding! Thank Him. Bless Him. You are in His love. LL
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/3/2009 2:15:01 PM
|
|
|
AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 282
Joined: 4/28/2008
Status: offline
|
Thank you so much liveloved and everyone else who is praying and giving guidance. Today is better. I am reading the book The Exemplary Husband (I think every husband should read it, it is amazing). I am learning that I am to show love to my wife as Christ loves the church. Are we as the church deserving of His love...No! yet He loves us anyways. And I should love my wife regardless of anything she does or doesn't do. I have known these things for a long time, but isn't always easy to do. Just pray that I can be like Christ in all that I do. Pray that God draws us closer together and we both put Christ first and then each other. By the way, my wife actually text me today!!!
_____________________________
"Sin for the Christian is a burden which afflicts him rather than a pleasure which delights him." - John MacArthur
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/4/2009 11:02:21 AM
|
|
|
Liveloved
Posts: 2099
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
Thank you so much liveloved and everyone else who is praying and giving guidance. Today is better. I am reading the book The Exemplary Husband (I think every husband should read it, it is amazing). I am learning that I am to show love to my wife as Christ loves the church. Are we as the church deserving of His love...No! yet He loves us anyways. And I should love my wife regardless of anything she does or doesn't do. I have known these things for a long time, but isn't always easy to do. Just pray that I can be like Christ in all that I do. Pray that God draws us closer together and we both put Christ first and then each other. By the way, my wife actually text me today!!!
Yeah, Abounding! Praise the Lord! I've not read this book but doinkdom's words encourage me that it will be helpful to you. 
Don't put pressure on yourself to 'be like Christ'. I mean, the desire is wonderful and what you should want. But just place your trust, your confidence, and ALL your love in Jesus, knowing Him, and He will mold you and shape you into His image. It's His work. He's the Vine. You're just the branch. So stay attached by reading the word of God and believing it is true for you.
He will do marvelous things in you and with you and for you. Your wife's texts to you is one of those 'marvelous things'. I'm continuing to believe and pray for you. Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit, Liveloved
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/5/2009 2:16:58 PM
|
|
|
AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 282
Joined: 4/28/2008
Status: offline
|
My wife told me that she still has feelings for her x-boyfriend (whom she had an affair with 2 years ago which I knew about and have forgiven her for). She also said she is miserable and I am not giving her what she needs. And I have never brought her happiness only other things had made her happy throughout our marriage. She said she has been thinking about divorcing me for the past 5 months. I have no idea what to do. We have a 3 year old son that means the world to me. I love my wife but she does not love me in return, what am I supposed to do? I have done the best I can, I pray for our marriage, I am in the Word daily, church regularly, I do my best to live godly and give her what she needs, but it is not enough. To have your wife say that you have never brought her happiness is so cruel. I am so hurt and I have no idea what to do. I am about to lose my mind.
_____________________________
"Sin for the Christian is a burden which afflicts him rather than a pleasure which delights him." - John MacArthur
|
|
|
|
|
RE: I need guidance - 11/5/2009 2:20:28 PM
|
|
|
AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 282
Joined: 4/28/2008
Status: offline
|
My prayer partner gave me this verse and it helped a lot I thought i would share it with you guys.
Lamentations 3:22The steadfast love of the LORD never ceases;
his mercies never come to an end;
23they are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.
24"The LORD is my portion," says my soul,
"therefore I will hope in him."
25The LORD is good to those who wait for him,
to the soul who seeks him.
26 It is good that one should wait quietly
for the salvation of the LORD.
27 It is good for a man that he bear
the yoke in his youth.
28Let him sit alone in silence
when it is laid on him;
29 let him put his mouth in the dust—
there may yet be hope;
30 let him give his cheek to the one who strikes,
and let him be filled with insults.
31 For the Lord will not
cast off forever,
32but, though he cause grief, he will have compassion
according to the abundance of his steadfast love;
33 for he does not willingly afflict
or grieve the children of men.
_____________________________
"Sin for the Christian is a burden which afflicts him rather than a pleasure which delights him." - John MacArthur
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
Nobody likes to see their sin all up in their face like that. 