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RE: As a congregant to leaders... - 10/28/2009 8:09:50 AM
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seagullplayer
Posts: 193
Joined: 9/18/2007
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Psalms 73:3 For I was envious at the foolish, when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
Psalms 73:28 But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works.
Check out all of Psalm 73.
And know you are not alone.
_____________________________
The world has only one problem, sin.
There is only one solution, Jesus.
Seems a lot of people watch evangelist on TV and call it going to church.
My kids use to play Mario Cart and think they where driving…
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RE: As a congregant to leaders... - 10/28/2009 8:59:52 AM
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teacher1982
Posts: 190
Joined: 10/11/2009
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Lea_3 - I agree 100% with what you have said and am in the same situation. I am so frustrated trying to find a church that preaches the Gospel and sticks to it, plus admonishes those who do not live according to the Word of God whether they be new Christians or life-time Christians of many years.
The church where I have been going for 35+ years is now allowing anything and everything to be a part of the congregation. I sometimes can not believe my eyes and ears! I have visited other churches within a reasonable driving distance and so far can not find a church that does not tolerate sin and sinners on a constant basis. I'm talking about "Christian" sinners (which is an oxymoron, but the truth).
Years ago my Dad said that satan knew he could not get a lot of Christians to back-slide and leave the church and go out into sin; so he was crafty enough to bring sin into the church. People are so fooled into believing that as long as they go every Sunday, give in the offerings, and even dress properly, they can live any way that they want to because "it's no one else's business" or because "others have no right to judge them", or the worst: "they do not feel it's wrong."
All I know to do is keep visiting and praying and living the best that I can. Surely there is a Church to go to that preaches and LIVES the Word of God; and where the Pastor/Deacons/Board keep the members in line with the Word using instruction and Biblical practice.
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RE: As a congregant to leaders... - 11/1/2009 9:13:23 AM
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davelinde
Posts: 1010
Joined: 5/5/2006
From: New Jersey
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I had some confusion trying to sort out the various reactions to the OP... but if I understood the OP correctly... my answer is "yes".
Yes, there are places where leadership has become watered down, no longer operating on a Biblical basis and you can find evidence of this in the various situations that exist. eg unqualified leaders, sin being called a "personal choice" which cannot be reprimanded, etc.
There are church leaders who are still faithful and handle issues of discipleship well. In my experience the best path is for people to become part of a small group within the church where issues of their sinful choices can be handled within the context of a caring relationship. Ideally the group leader is clear that something is wrong and the person comes to agreement and changes.
BTW - the motivation for this discipleship is NOT to prove that you are right and the other person is wrong. If we believe (and I do) that the following God's direction as found in the Bible is the best thing a person can do (and conversely ignoring it is the WORST)... the motivation is to help people find the best and avoid the worst.
One other BTW - in a lot of cases the discipleship is really more about making sure the person HAS accepted Jesus as savior and is learning to study God's word and pray/listen to God. If that gets done the behavior stuff can sort itself out more easily. IF you just focus on behavior you can encourage a lot of rule following without any comprehension of grace.
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RE: As a congregant to leaders... - 11/1/2009 8:00:20 PM
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KaptZ
Posts: 643
Joined: 10/28/2009
From: The swamps of Jersey
Status: offline
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I think sometimes God just wants us to be decent to eachother. How much easier it would be to improve ourselves if we spent less energy trying to improve others.
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RE: As a congregant to leaders... - 11/2/2009 12:12:15 AM
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Isaiah331516
Posts: 183
Joined: 1/5/2009
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just a note:
someone mentioned that church should be or is like a hospital.
well, okay. in a hospital th diseases are called out, the problems are brought to the surface. when someone walks into the hospital with a broken arm, the doctor shouldn't say, "hey, your're fine. nothing wrong here."
the leaders are called to speak the truth of the Word given by the one and only true God. He, as women are not to be over men in teaching, is to teach the Word.
lea, i felt as you. recently, God has answered many prayers in which i asked Him for help not to feel upset about this. it is/was tough sitting in a congregation of sinners and the sin is never addressed. we all walked in one way and left the same. der!
someone mentioned leave. i think i concur. it is hard to find a church though, huh, especially once God starts opening your eyes to truth. you find you can no longer sit somewhere that you've sat many times before. that is your heart revealing what God has changed in you. i beleive that is conviction. thank God for this trial :-)!
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RE: As a congregant to leaders... - 11/3/2009 1:31:58 PM
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godzgyrl05
Posts: 101
Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lea_3
That's the thing buckifn...noone says anything about God's word at all. Things just slide and never get addressed.
When I do speak up, I either lose friends or am called a "fundie". Yes I will admit, much of my beliefs are fundamentalist...but I look at the Bible. I'm not going to argue with what is expected of us. It's hard yes, but it makes it even harder for the struggling Christian out there when noone bothers to speak up, and then the people who are engaging in questionable lifestyles think that everything is A-OK.
Lea_3, I understand what you are saying and I know how you feel. I want to encourage you to stand strong, stick to what you believe, and don't take any negative comments personal. I find it interesting when Christians get defensive when the truth is being spoken, or feel the need to put down another for their strong stance in God's word. Let's continue to pray for all who are standing strong on God's word, and pray that God will continue to give them the boldness to shine the light in places where darkness dwells.
1Peter1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in ALL manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
We had this lesson in Sunday school this week, and I was looked at as the oddball because I choose to believe that Christians are capable of living a lifestyle that is holy unto God. I'm not saying that I have arrived by any means, but when the scripture says to BE YE HOLY; for I AM HOLY, I want to do just that. When I stumble, I know I have God's word to lift me up, but it also helps to know that I can look to someone who is living their life as the scriptures says.
_____________________________
Ms Tee
God Bless and Be Encouraged!
1 Corinthians 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: As a congregant to leaders... - 11/4/2009 1:30:19 AM
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Lea_3
Posts: 244
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KaptZ
I think sometimes God just wants us to be decent to eachother. How much easier it would be to improve ourselves if we spent less energy trying to improve others.
I'm not out to make others improve themselves. This is my main frustration: Why should I lead a Christian lifestyle when noone else seems to care, and I am the one who looks like a freak?
I always think to myself-- if pastors are okay with knowing and hearing about their congregants doing what they do, why shouldn't I be able to? Why should I go out of my way at times to try to live a clean life when it doesn't seem to matter?
I'm not out to have people get told they are wrong or have others tell them that they are right. UGH! I don't know how else to express this at all! I'm just so frustrated! I can blab and blab about this until I'm blue but it doesn't seem to get through at all!
< Message edited by Lea_3 -- 11/4/2009 1:37:28 AM >
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RE: As a congregant to leaders... - 11/4/2009 8:09:37 AM
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seagullplayer
Posts: 193
Joined: 9/18/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lea_3
I'm not out to make others improve themselves. This is my main frustration: Why should I lead a Christian lifestyle when noone else seems to care, and I am the one who looks like a freak?
I always think to myself-- if pastors are okay with knowing and hearing about their congregants doing what they do, why shouldn't I be able to? Why should I go out of my way at times to try to live a clean life when it doesn't seem to matter?
I'm not out to have people get told they are wrong or have others tell them that they are right. UGH! I don't know how else to express this at all! I'm just so frustrated! I can blab and blab about this until I'm blue but it doesn't seem to get through at all!
Psalms 119:1 Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
Psalms 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
Psalms 119:3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
Psalms 119:4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
Psalms 119:5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
Psalms 119:6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
Psalms 119:7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
Psalms 119:8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
Who are you out to please?
If you are not living your life to please Christ you have it all wrong anyway.
Get your eyes off others. Reminds me of a story I read;
Luke 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
_____________________________
The world has only one problem, sin.
There is only one solution, Jesus.
Seems a lot of people watch evangelist on TV and call it going to church.
My kids use to play Mario Cart and think they where driving…
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RE: As a congregant to leaders... - 11/5/2009 12:55:32 AM
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Lea_3
Posts: 244
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
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Do you know how hard it is to lead a life as a 25 year old virgin who is berated for living a lifestyle as clean as possible? To choose to abstain from questionable activities and is accountable to others yet can see someone else doing the same thing and going to church and "gets away" with it? Honestly...I shouldn't even bother anymore.
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RE: As a congregant to leaders... - 11/5/2009 1:49:34 AM
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kcgodlyman
Posts: 46
Joined: 7/1/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
Do you know how hard it is to lead a life as a 25 year old virgin who is berated for living a lifestyle as clean as possible? To choose to abstain from questionable activities and is accountable to others yet can see someone else doing the same thing and going to church and "gets away" with it? Honestly...I shouldn't even bother anymore.
Jesus never said following Him would be easy, in fact He said that as the world has hated Him, so shall it hate His followers. I commend you for your purity and your steadfast adherence to our Lord's ways. Please, don't give up this admirable endeavor just because others aren't doing the same and may even ridicule you for your behavior. Remember, the enemy only attacks those he sees as a threat, he does not waste his energy on those who follow the world's ways for they are already lost. Hold fast to your honor in this honor-less world and accept the words of ridicule as the accolades of heaven. Be assured that heaven is celebrating you and Jesus is very proud of you.
Blessings upon you!
_____________________________
A true friend is hard to find, but even harder to lose!
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RE: As a congregant to leaders... - 11/6/2009 4:32:31 PM
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cwb
Posts: 140
Joined: 1/15/2007
From: Eastern NC
Status: offline
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quote:
... the Bible does tell us what Christian behavior is and isn't, and to not associate ourselves with the appearance of evil.
AMEN!
Eph 5 12 End of story.
_____________________________
We are to do the will of God from our heart. Eph Ch 6 v. 6
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RE: As a congregant to leaders... - 11/13/2009 8:36:52 PM
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mosess8
Posts: 66
Joined: 11/6/2009
Status: offline
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The pressures of paying the bills in our oversized churches, collecting that salary and wanting to be successful is causing many pastors to accept things that are simply not biblical. It's saddening. Pastors often feel rejected and it seems that many of us are beginning to want to be popular.
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