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Car Seat laws - 11/6/2009 9:56:30 PM
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GlassMoonWaltzes
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I just had a facebook friend (old camp friend, not a CW friend) complain about the car seat laws and our "nanny government". She has many kids, and one kid finallly aged out of a carseat, and she was glad that would reduce the # of carseats.
The thing is, she seemed really annoyed at car seat laws.
When I was teaching pre-school, the law was up to 4 yo and 40 lbs had to be in car seats, and I may be wrong, but I think I heard CA law is up to 6 yrs, 60 lbs (I'm sure if that's not right some CA parent will be happy to correct me). 
But anyway, I remember when I was at the preschool how much work is was to do all the car seat arrrangements on the two field trips we took, and I kind of grumbled about the car seat laws being extreme....then one of the dads, who was a CHP* officer told me that if I saw the injured/dead babies and children he saw, I would not think that. So, I thanked him, and afterwards I did not think that, lol.
But I still hear parents complain about it. I know on these boards there are plenty of people who don't believe in too much government intervention, but OTOH, I know every parent here wants to keep their child safe.
So, my question isn't really about car seats/their wisdom per se, but as parents (although non parents are welcome to contribute) how much do you feel should just be individual responsibility for your (or other people their) own kids, and how much or how little do you think the law should have anything to do with it? I mean, in reference to car seats....not in general (and please don't make it an Obama debate or anything like that...let's keep this discussion comfortable for those of any pollitcal party).
*California Highway Patrol
p.s edited to add the bolded part
< Message edited by OneOfHisJewels -- 11/6/2009 11:22:55 PM >
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/6/2009 10:41:58 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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The sad fact is that if carseats were not mandatory then more parents would not use them and more babies would die. For car seats, I am glad there are laws.
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/6/2009 10:47:17 PM
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garsyt
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quote:
Indiana state law requires children less than 8 years old to ride in a federally approved car seat or booster seat that is appropriate for the child's height and weight. Indiana law also requires that the car seat or booster seat be installed and used according to the manufacturer's instructions. Children ages 8 to 16 must ride in a seat belt. The state of Indiana strongly encourages parents to place children in the back seat whenever possible, though this is not required by law.
Pulled this from here
That meant for me that at one time I had 4 carseats/booster seats in my car. That 's a lot! Sure I was ecstatic when I could reduce that number a bit! made life a lot easier!
Perhaps you just caught her on a bad day. Trust me there were days when I wished I didn't have to have them all in carseats too! Most aren't all that easy for even older children to get fastened correctly and your're climbing all over a mini van and then to get them all out is a chore as well!
My last child graduated from her final booster seat a year ago this past December! I was never happier! We made a HUGE show of tossing that thing in the trash! I remember her 2nd grade teacher celebrated those moments!
blessings,
Garsy
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/6/2009 11:14:28 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 2672
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SurpassingPeace
The sad fact is that if carseats were not mandatory then more parents would not use them and more babies would die. For car seats, I am glad there are laws.
Carseats are one of the few things for which I will support very strong and strict legislation. Statistically, the longer a child is rearfacing the less likely they are to be killed. The official recommendation in Sweden is to rearface to 3-4 years, per capita their child fatalities are a minute fraction of those in the US, where it's such a huge "milestone" to turn your child forward facing.
Our daughter is still rearfacing at 27 months and 30lbs, I don't have any plans to turn her until she hits 35lbs(the max on her current carseat) and we have talked about purchasing one that rearfaces to 40lbs, depending on when she outgrows her current seat.
DD in her Britax Marathon
DD and DN, rearfacing on Halloween
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/6/2009 11:14:42 PM
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GlassMoonWaltzes
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quote:
Perhaps you just caught her on a bad day.
Um, I don't think so, it was her facebook status of the day.
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/6/2009 11:32:50 PM
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GlassMoonWaltzes
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
quote:
ORIGINAL: SurpassingPeace
The sad fact is that if carseats were not mandatory then more parents would not use them and more babies would die. For car seats, I am glad there are laws.
Carseats are one of the few things for which I will support very strong and strict legislation. Statistically, the longer a child is rearfacing the less likely they are to be killed. The official recommendation in Sweden is to rearface to 3-4 years, per capita their child fatalities are a minute fraction of those in the US, where it's such a huge "milestone" to turn your child forward facing.
Our daughter is still rearfacing at 27 months and 30lbs, I don't have any plans to turn her until she hits 35lbs(the max on her current carseat) and we have talked about purchasing one that rearfaces to 40lbs, depending on when she outgrows her current seat.
DD in her Britax Marathon
DD and DN, rearfacing on Halloween
If I count right that makes her 2 years 2 months....wow time flies...when I first got on CW she was in the oven as it were. Methinks it's time for a new avatar picture (hint hint), but I love the one that's there, too.
Thank you for the pictures. I've heard some people say that their legs will be "too squished" if they rear face as a toddler, but she looks comfortable and happy to me.
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/6/2009 11:53:54 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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I can't get my stupid avatar to change, or my siggy for that matter.
She is quite comfy, she is a kid who likes her legs close to her body(I'm the same way) so it works perfectly for her.
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/7/2009 12:05:41 AM
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GlassMoonWaltzes
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
I can't get my stupid avatar to change, or my siggy for that matter.
She is quite comfy, she is a kid who likes her legs close to her body(I'm the same way) so it works perfectly for her.
Oh, bummer. Maybe that's a question for feedback and info. I can't really figure out avatars..my mom has to help w/mine when I have one that isn't just from CW.  . She had to help when I had my own pic up, and I'm going to need her help again with the one I picked from another website.
That's good that she likes her legs close to her body. If the next child doesn't like it, will you still do rear facing through toddlerhood though? I would imagine, yes, but was just wondering.
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/7/2009 12:19:04 AM
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peculiar_lady2
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I too do not believe in a lot of gov't intrusion into our lives, however in the area of car seats and seat belts, I would love to see higher standards...yes, HIGHER. Some states are slowly adding more restrictions to their laws, but it is still not enough in other states. I think I would support a national child safety seat law...not dependent upon the states to enact, but the feds. (I think...depending on the specifics of the law itself).
If you think of it in terms of how safe it keeps your child, then an extra five minutes isn't an issue. Leave five minutes earlier and plan that time for getting them buckled into your schedule. I think it is the least you can do for the safety of your own child.
We still have two in car seats...Justice and Jackson. Justice is backwards 100% of the time still (19lb and 16mo). Jackson is 99% of the time (he is 30lb and 39mo). We turn him around on long road trips if he starts complaining about his legs. I turn him back around usually at the next stop, just to give him a time to stretch out a bit...and ONLY if he is complaining about it and we can't stop for a long enough time to stretch his legs properly. They like facing backwards anyway...they can see and talk to the child sitting right next to their seats and things don't fall on the floor as easily.
Our next two up are not in booster seats anymore...I hated them and had to find something else when we had our fifth child because they just wouldn't fit in our van and allow room to buckle them in. (I think if you added up all the widths of the car seat plus two boosters, it left about 1" to buckle both seats in...not going to happen). So after much research, I found a safety vest that we use instead. They do not need the booster, and the vest makes the seat belt fit them properly for their size. They are 35lb and 40lb, and will be in them until they are out of the weight range for the vest. Once Jack gets too big for his seat (and Justice too) we will go to the vests for them too. The car seats we have for the boys will let them stay rear facing up to 40lb though, so it will be a while for them.
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/7/2009 7:43:02 AM
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Sideways
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I'm curious why it's ok for the government to intervene here but not in other areas relating to the safety of children.
I support making car seats mandatory for young children, but I would not support extended rear facing legislation. Why? Because accidents are safest when the accident never happens in the first place, and some of us have children who make an awful lot of fuss about being rear facing, which is a huge distraction to the driver. So, I think parents should be educated about the safety of extended rear facing, but if they've got a kid who is tempting them to drink and drive (so to speak), then it should be legal for them to turn the seat around at 1 year / 20 lbs. Unless the government wants to provide free baby sitting whenever some mom would like to actually leave her house without listening to a crying kid.
My kids will be in 5 point harnesses until at least 4 years / 40lbs, and in some sort of booster seat until 7 or 8 years. We'll see how they grow, but so far, they've both been pretty big for their age.
< Message edited by Sideways -- 11/7/2009 7:59:17 AM >
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/7/2009 11:26:20 AM
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SteveSund
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From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
I'm curious why it's ok for the government to intervene here but not in other areas relating to the safety of children.
I don't think most people fall into the all or nothing view of laws. IMO, legislation in regards to how people parent their children should be limited to areas where there is a provable and genuine danger. In this case, there is plenty of evidence that being in car seats and booster seats saves lives, so this is an area where intervention would be proper. There are other areas where this is not the case, such as with mandatory gun locks. The evidence shows that having these laws does not lower the injury/death rate, so this is an area where legislation is not needed.
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/7/2009 11:50:24 AM
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Ellie-Mae
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I don't like big government either, but I don't mind the seatbelt laws.
Personally, for me, it doesn't matter what the law is. I don't put my kids in car seats because "it is the law". I put them in them because it is safer for them. We are supposed to have our kids in car seats until they are 8 or so many pound. I currently have three kids still in car seats (6, 8, and 10). Our van has low back seats with no head rests, and the shoulder straps don't fit comfortably. My younger three use their car seats for the head rests and because they help keep the shoulder straps where they belong. I simply don't allow myself to think of it as any more of an inconvenience than stopping at the gas station to put gas in my car... actually, less so, as I will get out of doing that if I can get someone else to pump it. 
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Believe very little of others opinions of you, and believe less of your opinions of yourself. The only opinion that matters is that of your Creator, and He thinks you're to die for.
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/7/2009 11:53:37 AM
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Memaw.
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I'm wondering if all the laws were taken off the books regarding child safety seats, would any of us not put our children in them?
I don't believe we would, because we KNOW the dangers, and the risks, and want our children to be safe.
Maybe the laws aren't aimed toward those who are good parents but toward those who aren't?
If that is the case, then we need all the legislation we can get, because from what I see in the world lately, there's a whole lot of bad parents out there.
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/7/2009 12:05:12 PM
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his_chosen
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I never minded car seats. It was the one time that you could physically restrain them. Not htat I wasn't tempted to use duct tape a time or two!!!
With four kids all two years apart, there were times all four of 'em were in car seats. We had to buy a mini-van before ds3 was born simply becasue there was no way to get three car seats in the car. And yah, the old van was difficult when it came to getting everyone buckled in. The middle row we could do from the passenger side (no driver side door), the back seat had to be done from the rear doors. That required stepping up on the rear bumper, leaning over the back seat, and when wearing a dress hoping a gust of wind didn't come up!
I do not want the government coming in and telling me how to raise my kids. Car seats are different though. If involved in an accident, I don't want to be responsible for the death of a child that wasn't in a carseat.
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/7/2009 12:16:04 PM
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stampinlady
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quote:
But I still hear parents complain about it.
They need to watch some of those horible videos out there. Dh was on lunch with some coworkers and happened upon an accident that just happened. The lady in the back was not wearing a seatbelt and because of the force she flew into the front seat, pushed the front seat and it killed her mother who was sitting there. The police said that if she had been wearing her seatbelt the mom would have survived.
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/7/2009 2:34:26 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 2672
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
I'm wondering if all the laws were taken off the books regarding child safety seats, would any of us not put our children in them?
I don't believe we would, because we KNOW the dangers, and the risks, and want our children to be safe.
Sweden does not really have strict carseat laws, but because the government, doctors, and media have gotten on board with extended rearfacing it's now the norm.
It's all about education. I meet tons of people who have no clue that you don't HAVE to turn your kid around at 20lbs/12 months.
The AAP has stepped up and does now recommend that kids stay rearfacing until 2 years or the weight limit on their seat which is fantastic. Now if we could just properly educated pediatricians we'd really be doing good 
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/7/2009 2:40:24 PM
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Sideways
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So, do you think extended rear facing should be law, Ryanne?
I do agree about education, and I'm seeing more ERF where I live.
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/7/2009 2:57:32 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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I find dealing with multiple carseats very annoying. I may have even verbalized that annoyance a time or two.  I was in heaven when my oldest two could finally get themselves in and out of their seats on their own. Whew!
However, I always put my kids in carseats because I could not live with myself if we had an accident and their not being buckled in caused serious injury or death.  That is also the reason I've gotten rid of older carseats, and a carseat that was no longer sturdy enough to be safe. We didn't have the money for fancy super-seats, but God did provide what we needed at exactly the right time.
As to extended rear-facing, my last two kids hit the weight limit for the rear facing seats we had *before* 1 yo, and it was a temptation to turn them around at that point. In our family too, the distraction of having a very large, very unhappy to be facing backwards child would probably be distracting enough to up our potential for accidents significantly. 
I would see seatbelt laws and carseat laws as an extension of road/vehicle safety laws, not an intrusion on childrearing choices.
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"Yup, I'm in agreement with Maggie here on all of this" Manda, April 2010
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/7/2009 3:40:38 PM
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PrincessDonna
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Sandy...
quote:
Every child under age 16 in the vehicle must use a safety restraint. If under age four, he or she must be properly secured in a federally-approved child safety seat that is attached to a vehicle by a safety belt or universal child restraint anchorage (LATCH) system. A child under age four who weighs more than 40 pounds may be restrained in a booster seat with a lap and shoulder belt. A child of age 4, 5, or 6, must use a booster seat with lap and shoulder belt or a child safety seat (The child and safety restraint system must meet the height and weight recommendations of the restraint manufacturer). As of 11/24/2009 this law will also include children until their 8th birthday. Exception: A child more than four feet nine inches tall or more than 100 pounds is allowed to use a seat belt that has both a lap belt and a shoulder harness.
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A booster seat can be used only with a lap and shoulder belt together. If all the combination lap and shoulder belt positions in the vehicle are already occupied by children using child safety seats or booster seats, a child who ordinarily would use a booster seat should be restrained using only the lap belt.
I included that last part because sometimes in our truck, Hannah (almost 5 and big for her age) will have to ride with the middle lap belt because I need all the other ones for younger kids. That is the only time she rides without a carseat.
We have three in carseats...Hannah in a booster with back, Levi in a booster with 5 pt harness, and Esther (14 months, 24 lb) backwards in a convertible car seat. Are carseats a pain? Yes, sometimes they are. But I'd much rather have to deal with carseats than the alternative.
I support carseat laws, and would support a federal law that matched NY's. NY used to be up to 4 or 40 pounds, but that changed in 2005. I think there are still states that have that lower requirement, and it should be changed, IMO.
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/7/2009 3:45:43 PM
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Ellie-Mae
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The car seats that my kids use are like Hannah's seat. I keep forgetting that it is called a booster seat with a back.
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Believe very little of others opinions of you, and believe less of your opinions of yourself. The only opinion that matters is that of your Creator, and He thinks you're to die for.
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RE: Car Seat laws - 11/7/2009 3:53:34 PM
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betterisoneday
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I'll be on the other side I guess. I don't think more government intervention is needed (especially not federal) and I am sooooo glad I live in a state that doesn't require kids to be in car seats until 8 yo.
Most car seats/car seat laws are "to this age or weight" and I really really wish they had a 'age or weight or height. By the time my sons hit/are hitting the top age they are so tall they're heads are almost touching the ceiling in a booster seat. They were both too scrunched up to fit rear-facing by 9 months (we tried different styles of car seats).
Education I would totally agree with! highway patrol putting videos on youtube or commercials on the evening news; ads on the radio.
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