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Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 11:41:54 AM
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GraceyGirl
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I'm not really sure where to post this, so I'll start here and see what happens.
After a lot of prayer, my husband and I have decided to dispense with the common traditions of Christmas, and instead focus on some different aspects this year.
That said, we have decided to celebrate Hanukkah, and to do our gift giving during the 8 nights of the Festival of Lights. I have collected over the year a menorah, and the candles, and some information about Hanukkah. Next week, we meet with a local Rabbi to talk a bit about the history and the separation of the two holidays. Our plan is that on Christmas morning, we will join the Jewish community here in Cincinnati to deliver and serve meals to the shut in and at some of the shelters.
Now. . .we are decidedly Christian. We truly believe that Jesus was the Christ, the Messiah come in the flesh. However, there are parts of the Jewish culture that we identify strongly with as well. I feel like a lot of the beauty and reverance of our roots has been lost over the years. I believe that Christianity is strongly rooted in Judaism.
I'm wondering if any other families find themselves in a similar quandry? If you celebrate both (or either) how do you make this work?
_____________________________
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~John Wimber~
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 11:53:53 AM
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Eutychus
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As all Jewish roots and festivals are mere shadows of the real thing, Jesus Christ, I choose to celebrate His incarnation rather than something that pointed to Him and His coming.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 11:57:55 AM
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GraceyGirl
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SO then you only celebrate Easter?
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God called. He'd like His church back.
~John Wimber~
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 12:00:24 PM
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stampinlady
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Gracy, read through Hebrews and then come and tell us what God says. I know that sounds kind of snarky, but like Euty said the OT feasts were a shadow of things to come. It's as bad, imo, as Evangelical churches doing Sadars(sp?). Jesus said, "It is finished" the curtain was torn and we have access to God through Jesus our Lord.
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Deb
There is no "cosmic dog whislte. It's gonna be loud folks !!!
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 12:07:32 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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A shadow cannot exist without the substance being present.
I love you, Euty, and you know that, and I believe Stampin knows I love her, so please allow me to write with candor as both of you also have. I would rather celebrate the things our L-rd celebrated, that are laid out in His Word, than to celebrate those things that began in paganism.
I love you guys . . . .
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While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 12:08:21 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GraceyGirl
SO then you only celebrate Easter?
What does Easter have to do with the Incarnation?
I celebrate Jesus' coming in the flesh (God with Us), but I also His glorious resurrection (God for Us).
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 12:23:02 PM
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crankius
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Our family is doing both this year. We want to celebrate the festival that points to Christ, and celebrate His birth. We are looking forward to it! The more celebrations and study of Christ, the merrier, we think.
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Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
God's Attributes
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 12:32:57 PM
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stampinlady
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I think I knwo the story of Hanukkah, but what does it have to do with Jesus?
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Deb
There is no "cosmic dog whislte. It's gonna be loud folks !!!
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 12:46:16 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Much! The freeing of Israel is directly related to the preparation of His coming. Furthermore, although those who don't do Chanukkah want to deny it, and those who do Chanukkah want to hold it as proof, Messiah was in the Temple during Chanukkah, and it is unlikely He would have been in Jerusalem, refusing to celebrate that Festival of Lights. If He had disapproved, He more likely would have been there with a whip, turning out those who celebrated in His Father's House.
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 11/19/2009 12:53:15 PM >
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 1:06:37 PM
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stampinlady
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quote:
The freeing of Israel is directly related to the preparation of His coming
How so because I don't see it in scipture nor do I see it when reading about the Feast of Dedication.
_____________________________
Deb
There is no "cosmic dog whislte. It's gonna be loud folks !!!
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 1:14:10 PM
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ta_mosquito
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Please do not turn this into a discussion of whether or not to celebrate Christmas or Hanukkah. If you have objections to celebrating Hanukkah, then please do not post.
From the OP:
I'm wondering if any other families find themselves in a similar quandry? If you celebrate both (or either) how do you make this work?
Hence, if you don't celebrate Hanukkah, you aren't in a similar quandary, and don't have to worry about making this work, so discussion on celebrating Hanukkah in general is off topic.
Thanks!
Tricia
Forums Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 1:30:40 PM
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DaveW
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If chanukkah was only a shadow of Messiah, why then did Messiah Himself celebrate it?
We made that jump almost 15 years ago. This year I got me a Hannukah Harry hat (like a santa hat only blue instead of red)
I would be careful about wholesale dispensing with christmas, especially if you have children at home. Most kids have very fond memories of christmasses and to just dump it means you are also dumping those memories. Not good. For many years we celebrated both, and put as much of a jewish spin on christmas as we could. ("Oy to the World" is my favorite album of christmas music!)
We lit the candles of Chanukkah, recite the blessings and give the gift of the day. (remember - 8 days of chanukkah means 8 gifts for each person!) We read the story from the books of Maccabees, or from other Jewish literature.
At the same time we did most of the regular christmas stuff also.
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 1:32:32 PM
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DaveW
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I find it interesting that Chanukkah is found in the christian scriptures (Books of Maccabees, gospel of John) but not celebrated by christians. It is NOT found in the Jewish bible anywhere (although it is in the Talmud) but IS celebrated by Jews worldwide.
_____________________________
Avatar is my son Caleb and Leah on their wedding 12/20/09
=======================
Winner of 2010 "best in "He Says"
=======================
Our CD is available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 1:37:27 PM
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crankius
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
I think I knwo the story of Hanukkah, but what does it have to do with Jesus?
I tried to reply, but then I was dumped, and now I see a friendly nudge from a mod...  ...perhaps this topic would make a good thread in the doctrine folder.
But here's a short answer:
When we light the menorah candles, we will think not only of the miracle of the oil in the temple and all that it means, but also of what Jesus said of Himself: "I am the light of the world." He is the light of the world, and He is our salvation provided by God.
We will read Zechariah 4:6--"'...not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' says the Lord of hosts." Jesus being the light is just like the light of the oil--it is not by our might, but by God's might.
It's fun to study the Christian meaning in Hanukkah, and neat to see that even Christ was at the temple during the festival.
quote:
I'm wondering if any other families find themselves in a similar quandry? If you celebrate both (or either) how do you make this work?
Hanukkah is new to us--this is our first year of reading all about it and "celebrating" it in our own way. We are walking through all the Jewish feasts/holidays this year--we are calling this our "Year of Living Jewishly". We also want to still celebrate Christ's birth. We don't see it as a quandary; we just see it as adding more reasons to study, reflect, and celebrate as a family. It's meaningful and fun!
And let me conclude this post by saying Crosswalk keeps dumping me. 
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
God's Attributes
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 1:39:38 PM
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Ps103
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Additionally, HERE is our annual Christmas thread, for anyone wishing to discuss whether or not Christians should/mustn't/can celebrate Christmas.
Again, this thread is for families who celebrate *both* Christmas and Hannukah.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community. Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 1:53:00 PM
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crankius
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It was fun picking out a menorah! I've ordered one. I hope I will like it.
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Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
God's Attributes
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 2:15:48 PM
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stampinlady
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Sorry, I read the OP wrong.
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Deb
There is no "cosmic dog whislte. It's gonna be loud folks !!!
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 2:42:00 PM
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betterisoneday
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I've tried to keep both (but neither very heavily) with my sons for the past couple years. The only time my children have celebrated Christmas is years they were at my parents house (I've always had to work that day) so they don't really know much different. This year I won't be able to do much of Hanukkah with them because of family tension but next year we should be back to both.
What I've tired to do in the past and plan on for the future is for my sons to read different stories and study the history of Hanukkah; give them a couple practical gifts spread out over the whole time frame; and use the few days before/after Christmas to study more about Saint Nicholas and pack up clothes/blankets/food for needy families.
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No reserves. No retreat. No regret.
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 3:04:44 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 3447
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GraceyGirl
I'm not really sure where to post this, so I'll start here and see what happens.
After a lot of prayer, my husband and I have decided to dispense with the common traditions of Christmas, and instead focus on some different aspects this year.
That said, we have decided to celebrate Hanukkah, and to do our gift giving during the 8 nights of the Festival of Lights. I have collected over the year a menorah, and the candles, and some information about Hanukkah. Next week, we meet with a local Rabbi to talk a bit about the history and the separation of the two holidays. Our plan is that on Christmas morning, we will join the Jewish community here in Cincinnati to deliver and serve meals to the shut in and at some of the shelters.
Now. . .we are decidedly Christian. We truly believe that Jesus was the Christ, the Messiah come in the flesh. However, there are parts of the Jewish culture that we identify strongly with as well. I feel like a lot of the beauty and reverance of our roots has been lost over the years. I believe that Christianity is strongly rooted in Judaism.
I'm wondering if any other families find themselves in a similar quandry? If you celebrate both (or either) how do you make this work?
I have no difficulty with anyone celebrating Chanakkah, but I am really troubled by the very modern avocation to reject western Christian practices like Christmas (and Easter) and denounce them as "pagan." There are a lot of wonderful, meaningful Jewish celebrations that I have enjoyed being a part of over the years; some, like Simchat HaTorah, that originated centuries after Christ have meanings that are easily integrated into the Christian experience. However, too often I have noticed a trend that teaches the idea that if something is uniquely part of the western Christian tradition it is pagan and evil, but if a practice originated among any other culture (like Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc..) it is automatically "good", and there really is nothing good that comes from this kind of teaching.
Additionally, do you realize that Chanakkah is not a biblical feast? It comes from the story of the Maccabees, not the bible; I don't bring this up as a reason not to celebrate Chanakkah, but only because often the excuse used for not celebrating Christmas is that Christmas is a celebration not found in the bible and this is one holiday where Messianics seem to often hold a double standard.
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 3:09:44 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 3447
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
Gracy, read through Hebrews and then come and tell us what God says. I know that sounds kind of snarky, but like Euty said the OT feasts were a shadow of things to come. It's as bad, imo, as Evangelical churches doing Sadars(sp?). Jesus said, "It is finished" the curtain was torn and we have access to God through Jesus our Lord.
Understanding the history and practices of the Jewish people is one of the best aides we can have to understanding the writing of these (mostly Jewish people) in our New Testament. While I am troubled when the Jewish feasts are celebrated today as a mandate of the Law that we must follow, I am also troubled because too many Christians never take the time to understand the feasts and recognize the significance these feasts have in both the OT and NT theology. We are no longer obligated to celebrate these feasts, but these feasts still offer a rich and wonderful lesson to those who follow Christ today. How can that possibly be "bad?"
< Message edited by benelchi -- 11/19/2009 3:16:13 PM >
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אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Hanukkah & Christmas - 11/19/2009 3:32:21 PM
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laura...
Posts: 3349
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: GraceyGirl
I'm not really sure where to post this, so I'll start here and see what happens.
After a lot of prayer, my husband and I have decided to dispense with the common traditions of Christmas, and instead focus on some different aspects this year.
That said, we have decided to celebrate Hanukkah, and to do our gift giving during the 8 nights of the Festival of Lights. I have collected over the year a menorah, and the candles, and some information about Hanukkah. Next week, we meet with a local Rabbi to talk a bit about the history and the separation of the two holidays. Our plan is that on Christmas morning, we will join the Jewish community here in Cincinnati to deliver and serve meals to the shut in and at some of the shelters.
Now. . .we are decidedly Christian. We truly believe that Jesus was the Christ, the Messiah come in the flesh. However, there are parts of the Jewish culture that we identify strongly with as well. I feel like a lot of the beauty and reverance of our roots has been lost over the years. I believe that Christianity is strongly rooted in Judaism.
I'm wondering if any other families find themselves in a similar quandry? If you celebrate both (or either) how do you make this work?
I have no difficulty with anyone celebrating Chanakkah, but I am really troubled by the very modern avocation to reject western Christian practices like Christmas (and Easter) and denounce them as "pagan." There are a lot of wonderful, meaningful Jewish celebrations that I have enjoyed being a part of over the years; some, like Simchat HaTorah, that originated centuries after Christ have meanings that are easily integrated into the Christian experience. However, too often I have noticed a trend that teaches the idea that if something is uniquely part of the western Christian tradition it is pagan and evil, but if a practice originated among any other culture (like Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc..) it is automatically "good", and there really is nothing good that comes from this kind of teaching.
Additionally, do you realize that Chanakkah is not a biblical feast? It comes from the story of the Maccabees, not the bible; I don't bring this up as a reason not to celebrate Chanakkah, but only because often the excuse used for not celebrating Christmas is that Christmas is a celebration not found in the bible and this is one holiday where Messianics seem to often hold a double standard.
I agree with you. I can understand why some Christians will not celebrate Christmas. That's fine. But celebrating Chanakkah isn't more biblical. My daughter-in-law is Jewish. She and my son celebrate Chanakkah and Christmas. Yes, they light the candles and remember the miracle of the oil but Chanakkah is mostly a fun holiday of playing dreidel (a gambling game), and eating fried donuts. LOL!!
My DIL is from Israel. She says that the giving of gifts during Chanakkah is a decidedly modern American addition to the holiday. It started so that Jewish children did not miss out on all the gift giving of Christmas.
< Message edited by laura... -- 11/19/2009 3:40:33 PM >
_____________________________
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith... ...so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. Hebrew 12:3-4
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