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The line between teaching and suggested application - 3/24/2010 10:16:57 AM
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ppodmama
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In discussions with my husband we realized that many times when we hear a sermon at church, it is usually followed by some application suggestions which are married to ministries or events offered by our church. How responsible do you feel about suggesting ways to apply your messages in real life?
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RE: The line between teaching and suggested application - 3/24/2010 12:49:56 PM
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doinkdom
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IMO and in our church body, it is critical. Filling my head with a bunch of knowledge, but not applying it to my life seems to short change the Gospel and hinder my own sancitification.
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Our furball Niko, lounging around...
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RE: The line between teaching and suggested application - 3/24/2010 12:55:51 PM
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ppodmama
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From: Midwest
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do you also remind people to pray to God for how to apply the message, and teach your ways are not the only ways to apply message?
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RE: The line between teaching and suggested application - 3/24/2010 1:04:53 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5352
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From: The higher lowcountry
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yes...we do. Most heresy comes from application, so we are very aware of that.
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Our furball Niko, lounging around...
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RE: The line between teaching and suggested application - 3/25/2010 12:38:33 AM
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Peloton
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A message can be applied differently to different people. Every message should have a "call to action." A "call to action" is applying Gods word to your life making lifestyle adjustments of all sorts and degrees. To me, a message without a "call to action" is just another message to sooth the man within. We should always be reaching for the prize of the high calling and growing in our faith and knowledge, and we as pastors must remember, we all grow at different rates. Could enthusiasm to help our congregations along that path lead to many sheep being left behind in the rush to grow our view of a christian? I think the answer is yes. What happens to those left behind? Do they drop out with a sour taste for church life in their mouths? Do they go to another church where they fit better? Most likely it is the sour taste and the lack of desire to connect to another church. I read some where that some sow, some till, some water, and some harvest. To be found anywhere on that short list is a blessing.
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RE: The line between teaching and suggested application - 3/28/2010 6:01:01 PM
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ChristopherJ007
Posts: 205
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Canada
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In Nehemiah 8:8, we see an example for us as ministers of the Word of God: "So they read distinctly from the book, in the Law of God; and they gave the sense, and helped them to understand the reading." Our job is not just to tell the people what the Bible says and what it means, but there must always be a point of application, to show them its relevance to their lives here and now. It's true that some messages will be designed to teach or inspire people with a revelation of God's truth (i.e. understanding His grace, adoption, redemption, etc), but those messages will be balanced out with messages that help people to grow and become more like Jesus. That happens as we put His truth into action in our lives. So, pastors should always make it practical for their listeners, and give them suggestions for how to put the Word into practice in their lives. Sometimes the application will apply to service in the church, but other times it may apply to life in the home, in the workplace, or one's personal life of devotion to Christ. There is always the danger of course that a preacher will tailor make a message to try to manipulate the people to do something he wants, but as one who believes the best, I would like to think that those situations are the exception rather than the rule.
_____________________________
Chris Jordan www.chrisjordanpublications.ca (new) http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/ (free MP3 audio sermons, devotionals and more). NOTE: My book, "Supernatural", is now available. ISBN: 978-0-9865291-0-8
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RE: The line between teaching and suggested application - 3/29/2010 2:01:52 AM
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gralan
Posts: 2274
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
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"And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women and all that could hear with understanding upon the first day of the seventh month." I enjoyed your post, and it brought back fond memories of our last study of nehemiah and ezra. If one is going to actually teach something to the Body of Christ, it is going to have to have applicability. Eyes glaze over too easily as it is. This is one of the major faults of the electronic church (in existence for decades, and now on a computer near you!), and mega churches. The pastor cannot shape the message to the audience. In the example you gave, one of the things I understood was that the Law was read and then all those other folks were trying to get the people to understand what it meant; for two reasons: One, applicability because the Law had been abandoned for quite a while. Two, it was in somewhat of a foriegn tongue to them. Not everyone spoke the language. In our American culture, part of my problem with reaching a congregation has been not knowing the subcultural influences that filter how they hear words and think of concepts. I've heard some pretty unrealistic ideas expressed by teachers/ preachers as applications. Sometimes that is the failure of just not spending time in humble preparation. Sometimes it is because we pulled stuff out of a book of things to use in sermons. Sometimes it is because we are out of touch with reality or have a weak spiritual pulse. I like to spend 15 hours or so of preparation for one good hour of preaching. In some churches with 3 or more services a week, unless one is delivering the same message it gets easy to get slack. Particularly if the congregation forgets that it isn't the pastors job to visit all the sick, pray at all the meetings, etc., etc., etc. I know an intentional interim pastor who likes it mainly because he can keep pulling out his old sermons and reusing them time and again. Whatever works I guess. But I digress. If one has their head on straight throughout the week, I do not see why one cannot speak off the cuff with exhortation from the text. That follows the longest line of sermon deliveries as far as I know; even back to the synagogues. Read a text. Expound, exhort, extol! quote:
ORIGINAL: ChristopherJ007 In Nehemiah 8:8, we see an example for us as ministers of the Word of God: "So they read distinctly from the book, in the Law of God; and they gave the sense, and helped them to understand the reading." Our job is not just to tell the people what the Bible says and what it means, but there must always be a point of application, to show them its relevance to their lives here and now. It's true that some messages will be designed to teach or inspire people with a revelation of God's truth (i.e. understanding His grace, adoption, redemption, etc), but those messages will be balanced out with messages that help people to grow and become more like Jesus. That happens as we put His truth into action in our lives. So, pastors should always make it practical for their listeners, and give them suggestions for how to put the Word into practice in their lives. Sometimes the application will apply to service in the church, but other times it may apply to life in the home, in the workplace, or one's personal life of devotion to Christ. There is always the danger of course that a preacher will tailor make a message to try to manipulate the people to do something he wants, but as one who believes the best, I would like to think that those situations are the exception rather than the rule.
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suffering servant, gralan, BTh student TGSAT //TrinityTheology.org/ //freecourses.trinitytheology.org/ The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever...
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RE: The line between teaching and suggested application - 3/30/2010 4:31:40 PM
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ChristopherJ007
Posts: 205
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan "And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women and all that could hear with understanding upon the first day of the seventh month." I enjoyed your post, and it brought back fond memories of our last study of nehemiah and ezra. If one is going to actually teach something to the Body of Christ, it is going to have to have applicability. Eyes glaze over too easily as it is. This is one of the major faults of the electronic church (in existence for decades, and now on a computer near you!), and mega churches. The pastor cannot shape the message to the audience. In the example you gave, one of the things I understood was that the Law was read and then all those other folks were trying to get the people to understand what it meant; for two reasons: One, applicability because the Law had been abandoned for quite a while. Two, it was in somewhat of a foriegn tongue to them. Not everyone spoke the language. In our American culture, part of my problem with reaching a congregation has been not knowing the subcultural influences that filter how they hear words and think of concepts. I've heard some pretty unrealistic ideas expressed by teachers/ preachers as applications. Sometimes that is the failure of just not spending time in humble preparation. Sometimes it is because we pulled stuff out of a book of things to use in sermons. Sometimes it is because we are out of touch with reality or have a weak spiritual pulse. I like to spend 15 hours or so of preparation for one good hour of preaching. In some churches with 3 or more services a week, unless one is delivering the same message it gets easy to get slack. Particularly if the congregation forgets that it isn't the pastors job to visit all the sick, pray at all the meetings, etc., etc., etc. I know an intentional interim pastor who likes it mainly because he can keep pulling out his old sermons and reusing them time and again. Whatever works I guess. But I digress. If one has their head on straight throughout the week, I do not see why one cannot speak off the cuff with exhortation from the text. That follows the longest line of sermon deliveries as far as I know; even back to the synagogues. Read a text. Expound, exhort, extol! Excellent response, Gralan! I wish more preachers had your conviction about the power of the Word, and our necessity and responsibility as preachers to expound the grand themes of this Good Book! Here is one of my favourite quotes on the Bible, by the Prince of Preachers: “If God has spoken, listen! If God has recorded his words in a Book, search its pages with a believing heart. If you do not accept it as God’s inspired word, I cannot invite you to pay any particular attention to it; but if you regard it as the Book of God, I charge you, as I shall meet you at the judgment seat of Christ, study the Bible daily. Treat not the Eternal God with disrespect, but delight in His Word.” (Charles Spurgeon, The Bible Tried and Proven). (quoted from: http://chris-jordan.blogspot.com/2010/03/search-scriptures.html).
_____________________________
Chris Jordan www.chrisjordanpublications.ca (new) http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/ (free MP3 audio sermons, devotionals and more). NOTE: My book, "Supernatural", is now available. ISBN: 978-0-9865291-0-8
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